Opinion: The Aggression Misconception
posted by Sun_Tzu, 170 days ago
As the east and west scenes have come to intermingle ever more in the days of Dota 2, the debate about different styles of play has become ever more heated. Especially the common accusation tossed around is that Chinese teams are too passive and only inclined to farm. Bringing us his perspective on this issue is
Kurt 'zMuffinMan' Armstrong.

Aggression: a forceful action or procedure (as an unprovoked attack) especially when intended to dominate or master.
To apply that to Dota is easy. A team that takes an extraordinary initiative to take kills through either ganks or team fights should be considered aggressive. A hero composition that is majorly focused on getting kills early on can be thought of as aggressive.
Teams are often praised for their aggressive play style. It's regarded as a blessing to have a game full of early game action and a high kill count, while games that stretch on with minimal action are considered boring. The Chinese are given the most flak for it. It's all too common to have broad sweeping generalizations such as “European Dota is aggressive and Chinese Dota is a boring farm fest.” It's a misconception and I'm blowing the lid right open on this can of worms.
Firstly, it's important to trace back where this all started. Where did this idea of boring and slow Chinese Dota come from? Previous versions of Dota had a very different metagame. I’m not going to give a history lesson on Dota here, because the different versions and metagames are too numerous and detailed to talk about without turning this into an essay, but I will refer to one particular era to serve as an example. Some people might remember a Chinese player called
Gong 'ZSMJ' Jian and a metagame that involved tri-lanes featuring massive hard carries such as Medusa. These games were slow farm fests where the carries would reach max items and have a ridiculous amount of money for buy backs.
Icefrog worked very hard to move Dota away from this kind of metagame and did so with great success. A cooldown on buy backs, the addition of smoke of deceit, changes like these have had a massive impact on the direction Dota has taken in the competitive scene over the years.
So yes, there were times in Dota where watching a competitive game might have been sluggish and boring in comparison to today's games. It's not right to blame the teams for that, since the goal is to find the most effective way to win and the Chinese were the best at this and therefore had the most passive or "boring" style of play. This stigma has stuck with them ever since.
Let's fast forward to the present. There is far more variety in the way teams can play the game now and the potential for heavy early game action is not only present but very viable. However, games can still become slow, drawn out stalemates and despite Icefrog's best efforts this element of the game won't go away any time soon. When two teams clash and a game reaches a certain point there can be long stand-off's; where there is no choice but to group up and play safely until you know for certain where the opposing team is on the map; where getting picked off equates to the loss of your rax; where securing Roshan is paramount to your team's success. It's not because teams WANT it that way, it's because teams do what they must in order to win.
Invictus Gaming proved the critics of Chinese Dota wrong at The International 2012 and they continue to do so with a brand of Dota that must be considered aggressive by the very definition of the word. Templar Assassin, Bounty Hunter, Night Stalker, Sven; these heroes and the way iG plays them is pure aggression. iG refer to this as the 'face rush' strategy. At TI2 iG dispatched of many opponents in 15-30 minute blood baths, including
Na`Vi.On the flip side,
LGD.Cn played a 4-protect-1 style with sublime execution where they revolved their play around
Liu 'Sylar' Jiajun farming up and then bringing down the hammer once the time was right. 14-0 in the group stages was certainly impressive. When it came time for iG and LGD.Cn to clash in a fight for a place in the grand finals this was when we again saw those stalemates (particularly in game 1) and the stakes don't get much higher than that. iG adapted their play based on the opponents they were up against.So what does this mean? Are the Chinese passive or aggressive? I'd say neither. It's the teams. Teams such as
mTw and
Complexity had a more reserved and calculated style of play, but that doesn't mean Europe or North America should be subject to blanket statements about their entire metagame and play style.
Team Empire alone is more than enough proof of that. It just means different teams have different ways of playing.
And even having said all that, teams aren't just limited to one way of playing. It's the sign of a great team when they can play multiple ways and adapt their game. Na`Vi is a prime example of that. They have played very aggressive in the past, but they have also shown the ability to switch gears and slow things down; securing farm on
Aleksander 'XBOCT' Dashkevich Anti-Mage and winning many games that way, too.What's more, teams change and evolve.
DK had a few roster changes and are now playing far more aggressive than they did at TI2. LGD.cn shifted
Zhang 'xiao8' Ning to a solo mid role and have been seen using iG's own strategies against them in the G-1 League LAN finals. These things are also due to the balancing changes implemented after TI2. In fact, the competitive matches in Asia have overall become more action packed ever since the patch updates.Now don't get me wrong, the Chinese generally have a more measured and patient approach to the game which is often interpreted as overly passive, especially in the closer matches. There is another misconception that I would like to speak out against. Aggressive Dota isn't automatically the best Dota to watch. Just because a game doesn't have a high kill count or slows down at certain points it doesn't mean it's a bad thing; it doesn't have to be boring.
Personally, I get the most enjoyment out of a game when it's the highest level of Dota played. I don't find a game full of kills and action entertaining if the gameplay is careless and sloppy. This is why often in the past, before Valve introduced Dota 2, I found Chinese games the most exciting and interesting. This is because they had full time DotA players that lived in gaming houses and were playing the highest level of DotA there was at the time and a convincing argument can be made that they still do to this day.
I find it unfortunate when people criticise a game for being boring and slow. Sometimes that's just the nature of the game and it doesn't always have to be a bad thing. It can often be a sign of superior play and coordination. Many times a slow build up has lead to the most spectacular late game clashes and moments ever witnessed, like a calm before the storm.
Feel free to draw your own conclusions, just remember to keep an open mind and try your best to enjoy the games you watch!
by Kurt 'zMuffinMan' Armstrong
#2
WooLala wrote at 06.12.2012, 15:46 CET:
totally agree!
#3
Uhrenmann wrote at 06.12.2012, 15:46 CET:
Anarchy0110 schrieb:
More of this in the future please :)
I really like this :)
More of this in the future please :)
I really like this :)
+1
#4
Insatiable wrote at 06.12.2012, 15:49 CET:
LGD.cn shifted Zhang 'xiao8' Ning to a solo mid role and have been seen using iG's own strategies against them in the G-1 League LAN finals.
?????
i'm pretty sure LGD was playing countergank/counterpush strat vs iG
iG had NS and gankers like this but LGD played 5 man dota from min 7/8/9 and counterganked iG ...and eventually outfarmed them and finished the game as 5
?????
i'm pretty sure LGD was playing countergank/counterpush strat vs iG
iG had NS and gankers like this but LGD played 5 man dota from min 7/8/9 and counterganked iG ...and eventually outfarmed them and finished the game as 5
#5
Sun_Tzu wrote at 06.12.2012, 15:50 CET:
Anarchy0110 schrieb:
More of this in the future please :)
I really like this :)
More of this in the future please :)
I really like this :)
Maybe! I've been meaning to write an opinion piece of my own as well, but keep getting caught up in writing all kinds of other stuff. Hopefully as the tournament season begins to wind down I'll have the time to get something written :)
#6
IronGirella wrote at 06.12.2012, 15:54 CET:
Uhrenmann schrieb:
+1
Anarchy0110 schrieb:
More of this in the future please :)
I really like this :)
More of this in the future please :)
I really like this :)
+1
+2
a really nice idea!
#7
SqLISTHESHIT wrote at 06.12.2012, 15:56 CET:
U blew my mind with this
U r 100% right dude!
I loved "old" dota where big clash were at minute 60, and with no-stop!
U r 100% right dude!
I loved "old" dota where big clash were at minute 60, and with no-stop!
#8
avivle wrote at 06.12.2012, 15:58 CET:
mmmm ok
#9
ManOfTheMatch wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:03 CET:
It's wellwritten, but I don't really see the point of the article because I really doubt it will shift anyone over. Smart people already knew this and Vilat will still call chinese dota boring no matter how much you dumb it down
#10
fph123 wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:07 CET:
MORE!
#11
Layne wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:07 CET:
These are the kinds or articles which belong on a page like jD more often. The opinion of the author is of course always something people will discuss about but nevertheless jD is lacking more of this.
#12
stawlsajmon wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:08 CET:
"When two teams clash and a game reaches a certain point there can be long stand-off's; where there is no choice but to group up and play safely until you know for certain where the opposing team is on the map; where getting picked off equates to the loss of your rax; where securing Roshan is paramount to your team's success. It's not because teams WANT it that way, it's because teams do what they must in order to win."
Isn't it these moments that have given us some of the best nailbiters of the entire history of DotA?
I belive some teams or players sometimes wants this to happen. Or want is maybe the wrong word, but doesn't really hold anything against it unless they/you believe it brings disadvantage.
Point is some games get these moments, I would probarly start missing it if it slipped away entirely.
Otherwise a good read.
Isn't it these moments that have given us some of the best nailbiters of the entire history of DotA?
I belive some teams or players sometimes wants this to happen. Or want is maybe the wrong word, but doesn't really hold anything against it unless they/you believe it brings disadvantage.
Point is some games get these moments, I would probarly start missing it if it slipped away entirely.
Otherwise a good read.
#13
Mizure wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:08 CET:
i guess for new dota player, or people that just dont love the game as much as we, 60 min farm fest must be looking rly boring.
well once you are a fan, and experienced player or spectator yourself, you will find more interest and excitement in the little things, so 60 min farm fest is far from boring.
well once you are a fan, and experienced player or spectator yourself, you will find more interest and excitement in the little things, so 60 min farm fest is far from boring.
#14
Dashy wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:10 CET:
I loved the G-1 League playoffs DK vs LGD. One of the Best Bo3 ive ever seen. Farm up and 40 minutes ingame the action wont stop. Gotta love "passive" Dota. Once the action starts the actions wont end.
#15
Thelete wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:12 CET:
ManOfTheMatch schrieb:
It's wellwritten, but I don't really see the point of the article because I really doubt it will shift anyone over. Smart people already knew this and Vilat will still call chinese dota boring no matter how much you dumb it down
It's wellwritten, but I don't really see the point of the article because I really doubt it will shift anyone over. Smart people already knew this and Vilat will still call chinese dota boring no matter how much you dumb it down
well maybe there are alot of new ppl in the world of dota that doesnt understand why people call chinese dota boring or slow
#16
Anarchy0110 wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:19 CET:
Sun_Tzu schrieb:
Maybe! I've been meaning to write an opinion piece of my own as well, but keep getting caught up in writing all kinds of other stuff. Hopefully as the tournament season begins to wind down I'll have the time to get something written :)
Anarchy0110 schrieb:
More of this in the future please :)
I really like this :)
More of this in the future please :)
I really like this :)
Maybe! I've been meaning to write an opinion piece of my own as well, but keep getting caught up in writing all kinds of other stuff. Hopefully as the tournament season begins to wind down I'll have the time to get something written :)
This kind of topic is very funny for all of people to come here and discuss a certain point of the current going on Dota 2 scene. I'd love to see everybody's opinion :) And again, I love this topic. Want more !
#17
TheSleep wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:22 CET:
It's spelled misconception.
#18
Anarchy0110 wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:27 CET:
TheSleep schrieb:
It's spelled misconception.
It's spelled misconception.
+1 for this
#19
Ragnos13 wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:31 CET:
To be honest, I disagree with this article completely, and I think that as long as the generalization holds true that Chinese Dota tends to be boring, there's nothing wrong with thinking that way. The most interesting games that I've ever seen have been the games where teams were struggling against each other from the very beginning, looking to eke out the slightest advantage over 60+ minutes. Go watch EG vs. Mousesports in the first JD masters, or Mousesports vs. Virtus Pro in the TI2 qualifiers, and I dare you to tell me that Chinese Dota is more interesting when nothing happens in the first 40 minutes.
I was at TI2, and there was a major difference in the audience engagement levels between the Chinese matches that ended as farmfests and pretty much any other match. The reason those are boring isn't just because of a lack of action, it's because one team takes an advantage in farm early on and then just keeps building on it until the other team has no chance. As someone watching, we can see when the team with less farm is screwed, and the entire remaining time of the game is simply waiting for the inevitable. I don't know about you, but to me, that is boring in every sense of the word. It's just too formulaic and too predictable to be entertaining, regardless of if you are new to Dota or a veteran.
I've been playing since roughly 2005, and I can honestly say that as long as the Chinese favor this playstyle, I'm always going to consider it boring. I look at competitive Dota as a form of entertainment, and the most important element is keeping the audience engaged and interested as much as possible. I'm not saying the strategy doesn't work. Obviously the Chinese have been dominant for a reason, but that doesn't excuse it from being boring.
edited by Ragnos13 at 06.12.2012, 16:36 CET
I was at TI2, and there was a major difference in the audience engagement levels between the Chinese matches that ended as farmfests and pretty much any other match. The reason those are boring isn't just because of a lack of action, it's because one team takes an advantage in farm early on and then just keeps building on it until the other team has no chance. As someone watching, we can see when the team with less farm is screwed, and the entire remaining time of the game is simply waiting for the inevitable. I don't know about you, but to me, that is boring in every sense of the word. It's just too formulaic and too predictable to be entertaining, regardless of if you are new to Dota or a veteran.
I've been playing since roughly 2005, and I can honestly say that as long as the Chinese favor this playstyle, I'm always going to consider it boring. I look at competitive Dota as a form of entertainment, and the most important element is keeping the audience engaged and interested as much as possible. I'm not saying the strategy doesn't work. Obviously the Chinese have been dominant for a reason, but that doesn't excuse it from being boring.
edited by Ragnos13 at 06.12.2012, 16:36 CET
#20
DexoX wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:31 CET:
Very interesting. I think, that it was a good idea of you "Sun_Tzu" to sum up this things. It is very important, that everyone has his own mind. Thank you for this article!
Best regards,
DexoX
Best regards,
DexoX
#21
ManOfTheMatch wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:32 CET:
Thelete schrieb:
well maybe there are alot of new ppl in the world of dota that doesnt understand why people call chinese dota boring or slow
ManOfTheMatch schrieb:
It's wellwritten, but I don't really see the point of the article because I really doubt it will shift anyone over. Smart people already knew this and Vilat will still call chinese dota boring no matter how much you dumb it down
It's wellwritten, but I don't really see the point of the article because I really doubt it will shift anyone over. Smart people already knew this and Vilat will still call chinese dota boring no matter how much you dumb it down
well maybe there are alot of new ppl in the world of dota that doesnt understand why people call chinese dota boring or slow
okay then we have a frontpage article explaining why people used to say chinese dota was boring. It's a good article and I guess it's a good service for newfriends who haven't been around for dusafarmfest, but my point still stands that fanboys will be fanboys and they won't change their mind no matter what
#22
Quelm wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:34 CET:
Nationality/region means nothing to me - I just love great dota. If I was making a list of my favourite 10 games this year, teams from all continents would be involved. Competative teams are there to win (except PGG who treats the whole thing as a joke) - they are not there to make me happy. If an apparently passive style wins games then ofc ourse they will do it. However, I dont agree that passive is the current trend anyway.
#23
Sun_Tzu wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:35 CET:
TheSleep schrieb:
It's spelled misconception.
It's spelled misconception.
Shhh :P
#24
Hs2u wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:40 CET:
Who is zMuffinMan?
Lol.
Lol.
#25
musmatta wrote at 06.12.2012, 16:41 CET:
zMiffoMan has the be the closes thing to a human baboon this world will ever see. Seeing him featured on jD headlines, even speaking about an "open mind" makes my whole body twitch... You can still sniff the subliminal racism in his lines.
A silvertounged snake, and let me sum this up for you: "Since im trying to shove a bucket of crap down your throats, im not gonna mention what really happend but instead use these carefully picked examples and angle them in a for me suitable way, also im gonna ignore everything contradicting. Oh, did i mention an open mind?"
Also that can of worms you were talking about is probably just your family.
Yes im overreacting, and no I dont really care, i just hate this guy.
A silvertounged snake, and let me sum this up for you: "Since im trying to shove a bucket of crap down your throats, im not gonna mention what really happend but instead use these carefully picked examples and angle them in a for me suitable way, also im gonna ignore everything contradicting. Oh, did i mention an open mind?"
Also that can of worms you were talking about is probably just your family.
Yes im overreacting, and no I dont really care, i just hate this guy.
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I really like this :)